My raiding days haven't been that long. About 2 weeks in fact, which is less than a month of weekly raiding in Karazhan. As a result I've learned quickly there things I dislike about Raiding.
1. Raid not starting on time and people not logged on as they say they would and everywhere else but at the raid location. We've had this happen allot! I myself usually say if I'm going to be late before the raid time is planned because I know I have a long commute time from work.
2. People not using consumables that they know they need to use. I've seen that too which cost us a few close kills and then wasted time having to rez. However more people are using consumables the more we raid so getting better at it and using Flasks but not but at least half the raid don't as yet for whatever reason.
3. Raid members being constantly AFK between pulls or downtime and not saying going AFK and going AFK for long periods of time for whatever reason not obvious. Seen some people gone AFK for like 10 min thus result in everyone having to wait around doing nothing just waiting. One person went AFK so long it we canceled the raid due to no replacement for the AFK person.
4. Raid wasting lots of time to replace members who have to leave or leave suddenly and then have to spend a hour or more to get a replacement. Time is damn valuable my time or your time and it a waste to have it wasted especially with consumables like Flasks ticking away. At least half the Flasks I use go wasted and that expensive.
5. Raid members not having their gear fully repaired. That's just a no brainer! But we have had that happen that I have seen people forgetting to repair. Fortunately myself and others now have enough reps that I can repair inside Kara with Violet Eye reps.
6. I've seen raid members forgetting to bring reagents and forgetting they need then. Seen a pally healer without reagent in the raid and wondering why he could only cast regular blessings. Had to give him one on my stack of 200 reagents. I carry that many all the time in raid and heroics.
7. Sometimes loot rules are not always fair, however the rules are the rules and can still be dislikes all the same even if its the official rules. Oh Well.
8. No set raid time duration. However that said because we can't seem to start raid times on time and often late this have impacted when we end as well. But a set time would be nice. As for me I often have to get up at 0430 to get ready for work and my commute. We've had raids where it was 0200 am when it was just finishing. However I stayed to finish that nights raid, however its not something I wish to repeat often considering my work schedule that are 12 hour days long with commute time.
9. I'll have to be honest on this one. I do have a general dislike of carrying people through a raid who don't take the time to gear themselves to some degree after they hit lvl 70 and think that hey I just hit 70 my gear is not raiding level ready gear but I want to join the raid. Honestly I have a general dislike about that when some people don't take the time to run 5 man instances during the day or off raid time to improve their gear chances but only wait till raid time to get into a raid to do so. If you ask me why that bothers me, well you have never read here for long.
10. Raid members not knowing raid strategy of boss ahead of time thus having to spend lots of time to explain boss strategy. Thats a loss in momentum and that's also time wasted. Only a few people in the raids I've been on seem to do homework on any bosses ahead of time. Can waste a lot of time.
10 comments:
I've been guilty of most of those to some degree.
1. Did this on Sunday. Had a nap in the afternoon and slept past go time for SSC.
2. I always try to flask up and use buff food on progression kills. The rest of the stuff I'm blase about.
3. We've had guys like that, thankfully it's rare these days. The best solution is generally for your raid leader to call breaks every couple of bosses.
4. It's annoying, but sometimes it can't be helped. We had someone leave halfway through Kara last saturday to attend to a family emergency. RL > WoW
5. That is fairly dumb i'll admit. I have a mod that autorepairs me whenever I hit a vendor though.
6. Done this a few times myself tbh. The other Paladin's usually bail me out and I return the favor.
7. We have had lengthy dicussions about loot rules on the forums. We don't tolerate them in raids and the Raid Leader's decision is final.
8. That's a trickier one. Try discussing the policy with your guild and making an agreed ending time that suits as many people as possible.
9. Happens a lot, especially with some DPSers. Only thing you can do is suggest upgrades. Some folks are just clueless though.
10. I'm quite often guilty of not reading up on strategy as religiously as I should. Read half-a-dozen different write-ups and they'll give you half-a-dozen different strategies, none of which may necessarily work for you. I find it better to make a couple of attempts, learn what the boss can do and how he hits, and refine my tactics around that.
But basically, it sounds like you're sufferring from a case of "Hardcore attitude, casual group." I'm guilty of that one myself, but you have to realise that a group that's dedicated to killing bosses with the minimum fuss will also promote an attitude of minimum effort from some of it's raiders. Unless the guild develops a more authoritarian attitude to raiding, or you develop a more relaxed one, then you're gonna keep getting upset over this stuff.
Regarding "Hardcore attitude, casual group": I dont care how casual you are, a LOT of these items are common courtesy, hardcore or not.
Many of these line items boil down to one thing: Wasting people's time. One person going afk for just 3 1/2 minutes wastes half an hour of their companions' time, total (and in a 25-man, an hour is wasted for every 90 seconds wasted by one person).
In fact, I'd like to add one of my own to this list, which is the biggest nuisance I've been noticing lately: People not recovering from wipes quickly. Rezzing/running back takes some time, granted, but when it takes an ADDITIONAL ten minutes after everybody's alive and together, I cant help but wonder why. The most time consuming part of recovery should be Paladin Rebuffs. . . even if you had to single buff every single person in a 25-man raid, that should take at most 2 minutes. But yet its routine that wipe recovery will take 10-15, maybe even 20 minutes for some reason. Wasting a whopping eight HOURS of people's time.
Unfortunately this a common thing with ALL casual guild. Unless you have strict leaders this wont be such an issue. So....I suggest make a little fun of it and play Karazhan Bingo
http://theholylight.wordpress.com/2008/02/26/make-fun-not-war/
My first Kara team had issues with many of the above due to the fact it was really casual. I knew what I was getting into and was okay with it, but the lack of sleep and slacking RL job performance is really what caused me to bow out in the end. (I am better for it!)
I ended up not raiding for a while and focusing on heroics but I still got some decent gear ups and a nice warchest of badges for 2.4.
In my guild the whole late/afk thing gets rehashed now and then. Its one thing to have an RL issue that has to be taken care of and its another to have disrespect for everyone else in the raid with your lateness. Deal with it head on now or have it become habit.
If this continues for long you might have to ask yourself if it is worth it?
I agree that /afks can be annoying, but I've usually found that they're either down to unforseen events (accidents, emergencies, parental/spousal aggro, technical problems), or simple calls of nature. Nothing you can do about the former and the latter can be mitigated by the RL calling regular breaks to let people get a beer/coffee and a quick pee.
Worst case, if someone has to go afk for a few mins, and you can't call a break, continue without them. Your group comp has two tanks, three healers and five DPS, that's enough redundancy to handle trash.
It's a game, have fun. :)
@ not knowing Boss Strategy: What exactly is the purpose of playing the game if you're only following a step-by-step guide that someone else has laid down before you? My guild is a big fan of not using outside sources to complete quests and dungeons so that we rely on ourselves and each other to figure this stuff out. Yes, if you follow Figure A and Figure B you will win the fight each and every time, but that's hardly a challenge. Tried and true methods exist for every aspect of the game and with 9+ billion suscribers very little is ever going to be new for someone just starting out now. I think one of the greatest aspects of instances and raids is the unknown factor and learning as you go. If not, then you're no better off than anyone using a level guide to hit 70 and at that level it's basic data entry.
<|3
All your points are exactly the same for my guild and the reason I have stopped raiding for the past 2 months.
One extra point I have to make is people that are too lazy to buy Gems and enchants for their gear. especially Tanks and healers who get priority loot.
@stillborninfant: I assure you, it takes much more than just reading a strategy to beat new bosses. There is a large gap between knowing a strategy, and successfully executing it.
I don't follow a "Step by Step" as it relates Bosses nor have i ever followed one leveling.
Given that im my opinion one does not go into combat in a Dungeon with multitude of people openly blinded.
In the age of Modern Warfare and Wars in Empires past it is to the advantage of the enemy to always know their adversary and their known tactics. Its is not so one can follow a "Step by Step" guide to War with the enemy but to know what to expect when one engages the enemy without complete surprise thus having a chance to implement your own strategy on your feet if that.
Also agree with poster above that knowing a strategy and getting 10 or 25 people to implement it successfully is also a challenge.
Kind of honestly, you might be happier in a high-end hardcore guild. More than anything else, this is what the high-end guilds do, they weed out or train people who display these counter-productive behaviors.
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