Wednesday, August 6, 2008

Raiding and PvP Gear

Allot of our guild raiders and especially allot of our new raiders and new 70 spend allot of their time focused on obtaining PvP gear for raiding some even more so that earning Badge gear it seems for upgrades. At times you can find over half the guild in BG's most the time.

Our guild usually run 2 Kara groups a week for those that want to obtain gear and gear up for raiding. Having raiding experience is a different story. The thing I'm somewhat starting to see and am concerned about is some not all of those raiders wanting to show up for ZA runs decked with PvP Epic gear in some of our dps and healers and just don't seem to be doing the dps or have healing longevity.

Though I don't PvP myself I know PvP have some pretty good gear for dps. I do some reading here and there myself. But I'm not a PvPer nor do I wear PvP gear to have a solid opinion on that. But as one of my guild Officers the question is how do you or Your Raiding Guild view PvP geared members being considered for a PvE raiding environment especially one in which your trying to progress as well in a casual guild.


Nigel said...

I have a holy pally, disc priest, and enhance shaman and have done Kara with each of them to at least some degree. There are certain classes that PvP gear works better for than others.

For example, Holy Pallies can get mana back through crits, so the PvP gear isn't too bad. Enhance shammies aren't too hit reliant, so again, PvP gear with attack power and crit is useful.

A healing priest however, suffers in PvP gear due to the lack of spirit and doing ZA in such gear will be very painful. I went to a disc/holy spec for ZA and arena. Diving Spirit is useful for mana regen and should help with those chain pulls.

Any class/spec that needs hit rating for dps will also not do well in PvP gear as it generally doesn't have enough hit rating. Examples that come to mind are combat rogues and mages/dps casters in general. The misses would hurt dps considerably.

agador said...

I'm not a guild officer or raid leader so I don't pick raid groups, but I pretty much agree with what Nigel said in that it's practically class dependent. I find that some pvp gear in a raid is fine, but too much becomes a hindrance as relative to raiding gear, pvp gear is budgeted with resilience and more stamina than is usually necessary; this of course is from my perspective as a caster

sheepbreaker said...

In my old guild, we had a ranking system. Different ranks within the guild had different privileges (such as being able to take more things out of the guild bank, or limited use of alts in raids), and one of the requirements for going up in rank was a certain number of non-PvP gear pieces of a certain item level.

My current guild is much less beaurocratic about it, but members are not shy about letting others know that the gear they're using isn't ideal. A few of our dpsers wear a piece or two of PvP gear to raids, but that's generally because it's genuinely better than other gear available to them. If someone apps to our guild with PvP gear in half their slots, we won't accept them--while there are a few classes that can wear a piece or two, no class does better in raids wearing that much PvP gear.

Celina said...

I think for some classes, starting Kara in PVP gear is perfectly fine. Beyond that you need the PVE experience and gear to back you up. I know for my resto shaman I picked up a few pieces of the new Merciless Gladiator gear because it was too big of an upgrade to not. Some of the PVP gear lacks MP5 for healers so it isn't always the best choice.

Galoheart said...

Nigel - Find your comment really helpful and interesting. Especially form the aspect that you play three different classes and have raided with each and PvP some it seem to know the difference in gear of both.

I'm a little bit familiar with the Holy Paladin PvP gear and knows it has a lot of crit rating and overall good gear for raiding.

Wasn't familiar in any way of the perspective of some the melee class lacking hit rating on gear as you noted with like Elemental Shammy's or other melee class. Thats something for me to keep in mind. But the comparsion is helpful to note as resilience takes up a needed stat spot in comparison to PvE gear for raiding.

The point you mention of Healers as in Priest with PvP gear vs PvE and the lack of Spirit for mana regen which matters much for healing in PvE was not something not familiar with since after all don't play a priest. But not having the Spirit needed on gear for healing in ZA or Raids is a helpful point and one the reason some our healers go OOM allot. Again something I will make note of.

Agador - Point taken. Does seem class dependant as well as you say. And while few PvP pieces are good, I'm weary of seeing a raid member with just too much of it.

Sheepbreaker - So far our guild has just been casual about gear in general or for raids or PvP gear. But as we progress I see it becoming a issue to some degree. As it becomes a issue more will be said about it i'm sure.

Its good to know how different classes are affected in PvP vs PvE gear for raids and how missing vital stats affect such class in raids for DPS and Healers of the various classes. The perspective of knowing the difference and how such a class then perform i find important.

CynraAnar said...

The wonderful thing about acquiring PvP gear is that it's readily accessible and doesn't require grouping with nine or twenty-four other people to get. As a result, people can do the grind on their own time based on their own schedules without every worrying if people are going to show up.

However, PvP gear is itemized for PvP situations and tends to be ill-suited for PvE content.

When I was raiding Karazhan with my old guild, I was in a T5 raid while the rest of my guildies raided only Karazhan. They relied heavily on PvP gear and heroic gear to bolster their performance. I allowed it, as long as the gear really was a notable upgrade. You can get by with that in Karazhan -- especially given the big boost that comes from the newer Seasons of PvP gear -- but thanks to my incessant nagging they were more than aware that it wouldn't work past a certain point.

Hell, I remember buying the first epic PvP belt on my perky priestess because getting an upgrade for that slot was im-freakin'-possible; this was before Heroic Durnholde was nerfed and the epic belt that the Epoch Hunter drops wasn't as accessible. I used that right up into Tier 5 content until I picked up an upgrade in Zul'Aman. I just relied on the rest of my gear to compensate for the lack of integral stats.

Also, mixing and matching PvP pieces can be an awesome bolster to health when a minimum amount is required. I used to switch out a couple of high Stamina PvP pieces stacked with +Stamina gems to add a little bit of health. The gear that I've acquired now is better itemized for health, but I still keep my PvP Stamina set with me at all times!

You wake it, you tank it. said...

It has its place, but they're very specific pieces in very specific places.

A lot of PvP simply has no +Hit Rating, instead spending a large amount of itemization budget on Resilience. For a lot of DPS, that's a very bad thing. Dual Wielding DPS Warriors, Rogues, Hunters, Mages, Warlocks, etc all rely on crit. A Hit Capped( or even just near hit capped ) BM Hunter is -devastating- in PvE( my wife is a casual player and raids as a BM Hunter ) where as a hunter who has ignored hit rating all together is wasting the time of people who -did- get to 70, get the right gear and -then- step into raids instead of doing it backwards.

Now, some class roles can benefit from PvP epics. Specifically, druid tanks. The PvP shoulders are often the best upgrade available.

mandm413 said...

I agree with most above, I wanted to say as a pally tank myself that the merciless gladiateors hammer with 225 spell damage is by far the best weapon obtainable for me, so I ground out the honor for that. I have not seen any other tank gear there but in that case it was worth the 25k honor grind.

Now my spell damage is base 265 which is a full 100 above the crystalforged sword I replaced.